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	<title>Comments on: Feminism 2010 &#8211; will women smash the glass ceiling?</title>
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		<title>By: Marion</title>
		<link>http://www.mindbubble.co.uk/blog-mb/feminism-2010-will-women-smash-the-glass-ceiling/comment-page-1#comment-179</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Cosmic Bloke,

Many thanks for your comment. 

I agree with you: egalitarianism, as a starting point of any relationships between men and women, is probably the ultimate goal of feminism.

Women want the same rights as men, they do not want to feel scared, threaten, patronised, minimised,... only by the simple fact of their gender. 
Why did women have to become tougher and show their capabilities &#039;the hard way&#039;? Probably because they weren&#039;t given that chance that men are granted just by the fact that they are..men. 

Therefore this may have led to errors: from both sides, misunderstanding of the concepts of feminism (what do women really want?) or misunderstanding of their message and action (see here all the clichés wrongly associated to feminists).

An interesting point to conclude is that the societal pressure you mentioned is, indeed, upon both gender. Jean Kilbourne illustrates this with the excellent video from Media Education Foundation  “Killing us Softly 3” ..

Thanks
Marion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cosmic Bloke,</p>
<p>Many thanks for your comment. </p>
<p>I agree with you: egalitarianism, as a starting point of any relationships between men and women, is probably the ultimate goal of feminism.</p>
<p>Women want the same rights as men, they do not want to feel scared, threaten, patronised, minimised,&#8230; only by the simple fact of their gender.<br />
Why did women have to become tougher and show their capabilities &#8216;the hard way&#8217;? Probably because they weren&#8217;t given that chance that men are granted just by the fact that they are..men. </p>
<p>Therefore this may have led to errors: from both sides, misunderstanding of the concepts of feminism (what do women really want?) or misunderstanding of their message and action (see here all the clichés wrongly associated to feminists).</p>
<p>An interesting point to conclude is that the societal pressure you mentioned is, indeed, upon both gender. Jean Kilbourne illustrates this with the excellent video from Media Education Foundation  “Killing us Softly 3” ..</p>
<p>Thanks<br />
Marion</p>
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		<title>By: TheCosmicBloke</title>
		<link>http://www.mindbubble.co.uk/blog-mb/feminism-2010-will-women-smash-the-glass-ceiling/comment-page-1#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>TheCosmicBloke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindbubble.co.uk/blog/?p=442#comment-163</guid>
		<description>You know I find it interesting that women must either be better men than men or better women than men, so to speak. That is, they either must adopt &quot;masculine values&quot; or show of their &quot;feminine values.&quot;

I personally think this goes against what feminism should be. Certainly the word has its roots in a time where women were nowhere close to being seen as equal to men, so the focus on the feminine is only natural. At the same time, for true egalitarianism (which is what feminism, when practices correctly, is) to occur, we need to stop ASSUMING that any member of a particular group will or should act the same way.

Certainly men and women, in general, have a biological predisposition to be different, and to have different talents, and perhaps even to act in different ways. However, to take it a step further and attempt to enforce these &quot;values&quot; with such rigidity is where I believe the problem lies. This is prevalent in western society.

Men and women should be given equal opportunity. Neither should be rewarded for failure to perform simply because they are a man or a woman, but it should never be assumed that they will based on whatever values. In American culture, if a man or woman does not conform to his/her respective masculine or feminine values, he/she ridiculed. If he DOES conform to his values, he is ridiculed. This is a problem that reaches not only the ranks of men and women, but also differently defined groups: different races and people of different sexual orientations for example. 

I think one of the most difficult things women face today isn&#039;t patriarchy, but rather a defensive backlash against feminism, due in part to a misunderstanding of the concept by those who are not feminists, and &quot;bad preaching&quot; from some who are. Feminism shouldn&#039;t have to be a dirty word, but I think by it&#039;s name, &quot;feminism,&quot; people believes it espouses what are considered &quot;feminine values&quot; rather than simply the fair opportunity for women to show who they are and what they can do, whether that is exemplified by traditionally &quot;feminine&quot; values or traditionally &quot;masculine&quot; ones.

Still, as long as we are a culture of consumers, which let&#039;s face it, we are, this sort of thing will persist. It&#039;s profitable to make women believe they will never be beautiful enough, men never strong or flashy enough. This shouldn&#039;t be seen as a fight of men versus women, as it often is for some inconceivable reason, but rather as a fight of anyone who belongs to a labeled group AGAINST the rigid restrictions that are placed upon his personal expression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know I find it interesting that women must either be better men than men or better women than men, so to speak. That is, they either must adopt &#8220;masculine values&#8221; or show of their &#8220;feminine values.&#8221;</p>
<p>I personally think this goes against what feminism should be. Certainly the word has its roots in a time where women were nowhere close to being seen as equal to men, so the focus on the feminine is only natural. At the same time, for true egalitarianism (which is what feminism, when practices correctly, is) to occur, we need to stop ASSUMING that any member of a particular group will or should act the same way.</p>
<p>Certainly men and women, in general, have a biological predisposition to be different, and to have different talents, and perhaps even to act in different ways. However, to take it a step further and attempt to enforce these &#8220;values&#8221; with such rigidity is where I believe the problem lies. This is prevalent in western society.</p>
<p>Men and women should be given equal opportunity. Neither should be rewarded for failure to perform simply because they are a man or a woman, but it should never be assumed that they will based on whatever values. In American culture, if a man or woman does not conform to his/her respective masculine or feminine values, he/she ridiculed. If he DOES conform to his values, he is ridiculed. This is a problem that reaches not only the ranks of men and women, but also differently defined groups: different races and people of different sexual orientations for example. </p>
<p>I think one of the most difficult things women face today isn&#8217;t patriarchy, but rather a defensive backlash against feminism, due in part to a misunderstanding of the concept by those who are not feminists, and &#8220;bad preaching&#8221; from some who are. Feminism shouldn&#8217;t have to be a dirty word, but I think by it&#8217;s name, &#8220;feminism,&#8221; people believes it espouses what are considered &#8220;feminine values&#8221; rather than simply the fair opportunity for women to show who they are and what they can do, whether that is exemplified by traditionally &#8220;feminine&#8221; values or traditionally &#8220;masculine&#8221; ones.</p>
<p>Still, as long as we are a culture of consumers, which let&#8217;s face it, we are, this sort of thing will persist. It&#8217;s profitable to make women believe they will never be beautiful enough, men never strong or flashy enough. This shouldn&#8217;t be seen as a fight of men versus women, as it often is for some inconceivable reason, but rather as a fight of anyone who belongs to a labeled group AGAINST the rigid restrictions that are placed upon his personal expression.</p>
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